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Plus Size Princess by Gyno-Star Plus Size Princess by Gyno-Star
Could Disney make a "plus-size" princess? Should they? Could it even work? I tried to imagine what such a character might look like.

Read the story behind it here: vitaminw.co/culture-society/re…
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:iconthe-grey-panther:
The-Grey-Panther Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I know this woman in real life who looks just like a plus-size Snow White. She's gorgeous.
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:icon23tera:
23tera Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2014
If you genuinely think there's market for "plus-size" princess, why not invest into a movie and see if it works. More power to you.

There's been hundreds of "normalized" barbie  clones and majority of them fail on market.  The creators of barbie are testing their "normal" body type and I think the are discovering kids enjoy fantasies for fantasies....toys for toys and not so much for political agendas.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2014
There have NOT been "hundreds" of Barbie alternatives, that's just nonsense. And even if there were, the reasons a new doll fails on the market are numerous and complex. It would be lovely if someone could just make a doll and the market would embrace or reject it based only on the quality & desirability of the doll. Unfortunately, there's distribution, marketing, branding, pricing and competition to consider. Stop using the mythical meritocracy of the market to pretend that consumers always get the products they want.

Also, that "why not invest in a movie" point is silly. First of all, what if I have no money to invest? I have to make my own movie in order to see something slightly different from what's already out there? What nonsense. Movies, like toys, don't operate as a meritocracy where the beautiful perfect market determines merit. The most awesome movie in the world, if it's independently made and has little/no distribution & marketing, cannot compete with Disney's marketing juggernaut. So this "if you genuinely think there's a market" derailment is bunk. It's a tired one, too. "Oh you don't like what you see in mainstream [video games/movies/toys/comics]? Make your own!" Lalala so easy! Why didn't I think of that obvious and simple solution?

I'm sure you NEVER criticize a movie, right? You NEVER talk about how it could have been better. You NEVER talk about what you might like to see in a movie. Because if you genuinely thought there were a market for your tastes, you'd go out and make that movie yourself. More power to you and all that. 

The imaginary "free market" is not actually an answer to anything.
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:icon23tera:
23tera Featured By Owner Edited Dec 11, 2014





That would be incorrect. Technically Barbie has gone through hundreds changes, clothing styles, and even proportions. It' the brand evolved over the years. Don't take my word for it, go visit a toy museum or old catalogs. Yes, there are hundreds of different doll alternatives, from ethnicity, body sizes, plush-plastic-paper, furry to human, some even teach kids how to potty or even about disabilities, and cancer. There are even virtual dolls/avatar systems and dress up games. (Example nintendo wii)This is fact and real existing products, not something "mythical." Being self entitled or argumentative and making up non sense to exclude facts are completely different than criticism. No need to get mad, just do research.




www.barbiecollector.com/collec…



www.google.com/search?q=barbie…

My Little Pony Equestria Girls

Brats Dolls

My Buddy Doll

Cabbage Patch Dolls

Ever After High

Polly Pocket

Monster High Dolls

Brianna Doll

E Buddy Doll
Sophia's doll

Plush Snuggle Buddy , Sugar N Spice Doll

Paper Cut Out Dolls
Lalaloopsy Girls Mittens Fluff N Stuff Doll
Pattycakedoll



www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03…

www.thegloss.com/2012/11/29/be…



www.thegloss.com/2012/11/09/cu…



Japan is very huge on custom dolls, hundreds of doll companies.

www.dannychoo.com/

"Stop using the mythical meritocracy of the market to pretend that consumers always get the products they want. [...]if you genuinely think there's a market" derailment is bunk. "



This is a strawman but I'll answer that and your fallacies. Mattel for example know their target demographics and that's the reason why they have one of the most successful and ironic doll brands. No, they don't just make Barbie, they make thousands of other toys as well. It's silly to think that company can make a single brand to satisfy everybody, but smart business can plan for product to help please the majority. Barbie is iconic, not because they forced anybody, because people enjoy their product and voted with their wallets. Kids having fun with toys, isn't that the most important. No need to push a political agenda if people aren't enjoy what they bought. Mattel has also made bad toys, but also learned from their mistake.



Speaking off topic of making your own movies if you strongly don't like the ending. There's also flip book movies.

www.youtube.com/user/HISHEdotc…
www.youtube.com/results?search…



If you are on a budget, try paper dolls.

www.pinterest.com/CoronaQueen/…



"Lalala so easy!"

Your ego is hurt.





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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014
My goodness are you really this dense? You cited Barbie alternatives as things that fail, because according to you people want unrealistically proportioned dolls. Then you went through all this trouble to prove that Barbie herself has changed over the years... getting less unrealistic proportions... so I guess people DO want less fantasy and more reality in their dolls? Because they still buy Barbie? And why are you trying to "prove" to me that there are other types of dolls than Barbie? I never said there weren't. YOU were the one who suggested that dolls attempting to compete with Barbie tend to fail. Not that Cabbage Patch Kids nor Polly Pocket could ever be considered "Barbie alternatives" but whatever. You've done a lovely job contradicting your own point for me, so thanks.

I never said I had a problem with Barbie, either. You're arguing against a ghost, seriously.

"No need to push a political agenda." That's what it comes down to. I make a comic saying, basically, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a big budget animated movie with a princess who's not thin?" And your response is to say that's pushing a political agenda. Honestly, who really has the political agenda here? (Hint: It's you.) You didn't say, "Me personally? I wouldn't care for that." No. Instead you drown your comment in links to make it appear as though there's some weight of logical argument, and not personal opinion, on your side.

It's not pushing a political agenda to pose the idea of a fat princess. But I know what you'll say... you'll keep hiding behind the free market/voting with their wallets/consumers decide silliness, as though you've actually constructed an argument. Do me a favor and let it go, let it go...
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:icon23tera:
23tera Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014

So now you resort to personal attacks and more strawmans. You didn't do your research and cry there wasn't enough diversity in dolls when there are. I even offer helpful suggestions, but you continue to be argumentative.

"YOU were the one who suggested that dolls attempting to compete with Barbie tend to fail. Not that Cabbage Patch Kids nor Polly Pocket could ever be considered "Barbie alternatives" but whatever."

"My goodness are you really this dense?"

Nope. Let's get back on track here. Your design fails because it's not a barbie nor a real disney princess, but you want to pitch it as such. Do you not see your hypocrisy? I'm also citing doll diversity, that you pretend that doesn't exist. So don't confuse yourself, don't fault me to cite facts that clear your ignorance.

Secondly plus size dolls aren't as popular, the cost in materials can be twice as much. Toy companies want to entertain kids but are also a business for profit. You know what would be dense, a person who is a self-entitled hypocrite, who wants to push less marketable product at twice the cost for their ego. You are a liability. Who cares what kids really enjoy. Let's continue to push politically correctness and agendas down their throat. Don't play coy. Go make the doll yourself if you are that insistent, especially when your heart isn't in the right place, and can't take constructive criticism.

"you'll keep hiding behind the free market/voting with their wallets/consumers decide silliness, as though you've actually constructed an argument."

Sorry if you don't like reality checks or don't do any research. One day the plus-size dolls might become more popular to get to the market. But it will never happen any time soon if it's presented by a person who has ego issues, and a chip on their shoulder such as yourself.

"let it go, let it go... "

If you ever pitch this idea to a company act like an adult, not a spoiled princess. Being snarky like a Tumblr Feminist won't win them over. Companies want to form healthy partnerships, not toxic ones.

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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014
"cry there wasn't enough diversity in dolls when there are."

Never said that.

"
Your design fails because it's not a barbie nor a real disney princess, but you want to pitch it as such"

Nope, never said that.

"
doll diversity, that you pretend that doesn't exist"

Nope, never said that.

"
who wants to push less marketable product at twice the cost for their ego."

Nope, never said that.



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:icon23tera:
23tera Featured By Owner Edited Dec 12, 2014

^

Look another straw man. You didn't literally say those things word for word, that's my constructive criticism addressing fallacies. (Since you think free market/demand is mythical ) You just spent pages insinuating and defending such practice to be in bubble. You threw fits of denial as if you didn't decry toy companies or Disney about lack of diversity towards a political agenda. You haven't been honest.



"Honestly, who really has the political agenda here? (Hint: It's you.)-Gyno-Star "

The irony...



"And those problems aren't just at Disney; they're part of the fabric of our culture and society. The options that Disney has given us aren't great [...]Their attempts have often been lame. -Gyno-Star "



gyno-star.deviantart.com/art/D…



"There have NOT been "hundreds" of Barbie alternatives, that's just nonsense. -Gyno-Star "

Well, now you know that's not true, there's been cited many sources and store fronts that sell many doll alternatives. If you ignore the competition, you are going to get hurt or look naive.

I'm going to move on. I don't believe in pointless complaining by others, I offered research, solutions, and objective business practices to help. I can't stress enough that mass production of toys are meant for people/kids to enjoy as well as make sales...not for ego trips. You don't have to agree, reality always wins out.

//positives note: You have nice drawings.

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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014
From "Barbie clones" to "doll alternatives"  -- that's called moving the goalposts, since you enjoy naming fallacies so much.

You really shouldn't criticize my comics. If you want something different you should donate money to making your own instead. Stop trying to push your agenda on my work. Lots of people enjoy this comic and you're just trying to push your agenda on them. Not everything can cater to your tastes and it's selfish and egotistical of you to demand that.
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(1 Reply)
:iconevanoaktree:
EvanOakTree Featured By Owner Edited Nov 14, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Why?
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:iconold-marcie1234:
Old-Marcie1234 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2014
They could
They should
It would
She'd be really cute.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014
:D
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:iconxjustanotherhuman:
xJustAnotherHuman Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
I would like to see this, actually. :) Your princess looks super cute. ^^
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2014
Thanks!
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:icondustywinds:
DustyWinds Featured By Owner Jun 29, 2014
She would be my favorite character, I think! I really hate the fact that Disney makes princesses who look like they're starving themselves, because that's not historically accurate at all. Great job with your princess, by the way! She looks very pretty, and this just goes to show that plus-sized women are beautiful, too!
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2014
Thank you!
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014   Writer
Honestly, given the standards of the times when monarchy was more prominent, wouldn't a plus size princess be...more accurate, from a historic standpoint? Ya know, what with it signifying abundance, wealth, affluence, and a pampered kind of laziness (which was desirable). 

Still, plus-sized princesses woo! :squee:

Ya know what we'll like, never-ever-never see in a Disney princess though? Like, even less likely than a plus-sized one?

Gay Disney princess. Ya know, because somehow we're the one group (queer peeps) it's *okay* to exclude from children's media/media in general. Sorry to derail a bit, 's just a side-thought I had while posting. ^^;
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2014
It's not really a derailment. The need for diversity in children's media is important, and diversity isn't just races and body types.
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2014   Writer
Thank you this is why people love you. <3
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2014
Aww, thanks!
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner Sep 17, 2014   Writer
You's welcome! :3 Keep doin' what ya do, okay? Pretty please.
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:iconcherubfeet:
CherubFeet Featured By Owner Jun 29, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with everything you're saying!
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:iconmissmuffintop:
MissMuffinTop Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2014   Writer
You do? OuO
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:iconvalkyrieaku:
ValkyrieaKu Featured By Owner Apr 11, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
A plus size princess would be nice and different from what Disney usually does.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Apr 12, 2014
Agreed.
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:iconchippingchart66:
ChippingChart66 Featured By Owner May 16, 2014
Seconded. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I'd love to see a BBW as a Disney heroine!
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:iconelidy:
Elidy Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I think it would be awesome but i don't think it will happen based on what has been proven to sell better.
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:iconkegger98:
Kegger98 Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2014
Depends. Context is everything.
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:iconlonelylittledemon:
LonelyLittleDemon Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2014
Hey.  Disney.  Look at this.  Get ideas. 



DO IT.  DO IT NOW.  WANT PLUS SIZE PRINCESS NOW.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2014
:D Glad you like her!
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:iconlove-iz-evil:
Love-iz-Evil Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2014
It seems that many people insist that "thin is beautiful":( (Sad)   
I'm happy to find that I'm not the only one who hate this theory;) (Wink) 

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:icongoblinprincess:
GoblinPrincess Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2014
Well, Disney made her Spanish/Latin princess a redhead with light-coloured eyes. I don't think they care at all about different characters, girls' self-steem, etc. but about selling products. Actually, the same product again and again But it would be beautiful, yes.
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:iconelectricgecko:
ElectricGecko Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2014
Disney?  An ounce of realism?  Never the twain shall meet.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014
I don't even need realism - just maybe some variety.
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:iconelectricgecko:
ElectricGecko Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014
But here's the snag: when Disney tries for variety (and they take stabs at it now and then), it's always an awkward, possibly well-meaning yet hideously misguided affair led by umpteen million focus groups and cultural advisers.  The end result often ends up neglected or pushed to the back of the pack (I think you did a comic about that once), and for me, I'm not sure it's better than not trying at all.  I mean, I guess if they keep trying, at one point in time, they'll have a financial success, and then they won't be able to get enough of diversified princesses.  I ... I dunno, at this point I'm ready to agree that I don't even know what I'm talking about.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014
No, you're right. Their attempts have often been lame. I don't really expect anything to change in that regard either. But I think it's important to keep talking about it, and not accept what Disney presents without any discussion. Not that you're suggesting we should. But the idea here is more to provoke conversation about representation and the influence Disney wields over our children's imaginations, rather than to provoke Disney into doing any particular thing. The truth is that the problems causing homogeneous heroine syndrome are the same ones that cause awkward attempt at diversity syndrome. And those problems aren't just at Disney; they're part of the fabric of our culture and society. The options that Disney has given us aren't great, so I that makes it even more important to keep imagining how things could be different. If that makes any sense.
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:iconelectricgecko:
ElectricGecko Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014
That makes total sense. 
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:iconkiwisoul:
KiwiSoul Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2014
Rebecca Cohen? Huh, you wouldn't happen to be jewish....?
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:iconchaoticlatina:
chaoticlatina Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2014  Student General Artist
Lol. She looks like me. I'm plus size and Latina! I'll be happy to cosplay her with pride! :3 And, I would sing along with her and just love her! :heart:
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2014
<3
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:iconchaoticlatina:
chaoticlatina Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2014  Student General Artist
Lol. Thank you for drawing this.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014
:)
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:iconchaoticlatina:
chaoticlatina Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2014  Student General Artist
:)
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:iconkatiejo911:
katiejo911 Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Beautiful, and in most cultures, considered wealthy because she has enough to eat.  I remember hearing an African boy say, "I want to live in America because there even the poor are fat."
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2014
Yes, our ideas about what's beautiful are very culturally dependent.
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:iconkatiejo911:
katiejo911 Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
No kidding.  It's only recently that unhealthily skinny women have been considered beautiful.  Even as recently as the 1950s beautiful women were expected to have curves.  Women who were too thin were considered unhealthy and less likely to bear children successfully.  And especially after the Depression, women who had enough food were considered wealthier.  If you look at movies from American cinema you will see the change over the 1960s and 1970s, only starting to return to normal more recently.  Women who maintain a model's weight do not have enough muscle mass to permit their bodies to have menstrual cycles and therefore cannot bear children.  There is a reason they call it "painfully thin".  
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:iconblueheron93:
blueheron93 Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014  Student Writer
<3
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014
:)
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:iconmrplaid81:
MrPlaid81 Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Her best friend could be a princess with bulimia/anorexia. Their rival could be someone who's a paleo diet nutritionist that has crossfitters with gym injuries for flunkies. The Mom can have diabetes replete with missing feet as well as be a resident of the Brookhaven super morbid obesity clinic and say things like "I'm not overweight, I'm just healthy". Of course she lives in an area that has "food deserts" and she work the grill at McDonald's. There can even be a undercurrent about how cheap subsidized and ubiquitous junk food is bad for you, and ultimately expensive in regards to health as well as finances. In the end she takes up a career as a Yogi and gets a job at Gaiam as Rodney Yee's protege and successor.

Please pardon my hardhearted snarkiness and concern trolling. I get that there needs to be more realistic representations of common body images, but for me the line is blurred as advocating unhealthy outcomes and providing cover for a system that promotes predatory convenience junk food over food as medicine. Consider that for most of human history obesity and being plus size was not a normal thing. I'm probably overreacting, but as a Disney Princess she'd have to have a preposterous over the top storyline.
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:icongyno-star:
Gyno-Star Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2014
Why would it be preposterous? For most of history, being full-figured was considered a sign of prosperity and was considered attractive. Any Disney princess of the last 15 years would have been considered horribly unattractive in medieval times (arguably at any time, given the waist size being narrower than the head size). There have been PLENTY of fat princesses throughout history and throughout the world. So the only thing preposterous and over the top seems to be your ignorance.
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